An Interview with W.R.

Time for an interview, don't you think? A belated Christmas treat from me to you.

The subject of this interview is none other than W.R., the man behind the blog W.R.'s Screencaps. He has conducted a bunch of great interviews focusing on big names in the underground scene all the way to fellow bloggers, so it was about time someone finally got to ask him some questions. You can check out his interviews under the 'interview' label on his blog here.

Before we get started I'd like to thank W.R. for his patience. I'd been meaning to conduct this interview for a while, but a mixture of personal things and poor time management let this slip through the cracks several times.

Anyway, on to the interview!

I suppose I'll start this in a similar fashion to many of your own interviews: when did you realise you were interested in wrestling, and at what point did you figure out that it was something deeper than just an interest?

"Sweat dripped down the Warrior's body in streams as he tried to defy the pain."

My dad was a pro wrestling fan, so I was watching WWF from a very early age. The Mega-Powers explosion (Randy Savage vs. Hulk Hogan) was the first angle that I really took notice of.

When I was 12, I was looking through an old wrestling magazine, and I got my first boner. The article in question looked at the match between The Ultimate Warrior vs. Sgt. Slaughter. The hot photos and dramatic text overwhelmed me.

Who would your say your favorite wrestlers were when you were growing up, and how would you compare you interest in wrestling/wrestlers then vs now?

Obviously, The Ultimate Warrior was a favorite. It's funny, even when I was a kid, I was a fan of the heels like Randy Savage, Ric Flair & Ted DiBiase. On the babyface side, I liked Brian Pillman, Ricky Steamboat, Kerry Von Erich, Lex Luger, and Sting (specifically Surfer Sting).

Now, I don't really watch much pro wrestling. I'll skim through AEW Dynamite, but usually, I'll just listen to podcasts to keep up with what's going on. The backstage drama is usually more intriguing to me than anything on screen.

That's really interesting. Why has your interest in pro wrestling diminished over the years?

Back in the late 80s and early 90s, there was more of an emphasis on selling. The match layouts and finishes were much easier to follow back then.

Nowadays, it seems like you have to have at least 20 near falls before you can beat anyone. The guys now are great athletes, but the selling is inconsistent at best. 

Of the current guys, I would say MJF is the closest to an old school wrestler, and I mean that as a compliment.

Moving onto underground gay wrestling, how did you come across it? Are there any matches that caught your attention right away?

When I was a teenager, I was in denial about my sexuality and the internet was in its infancy. It wasn't until my early 20s when I finally searched "gay wrestling." Of course, BG East was the first thing to come up. I was taken by how old school their presentation was. It was like the clock was turned back to the early 90s.

This may strike some people as odd, but my first real crush was Greg Michaels. Specifically, his look in Demolition 6. For my taste, he's the ideal babyface. Jimmy Diamond, who is also on that video, was very appealing, too. It's a shame he didn't come back for more.

Brad Rochelle, Nick Archer, and Liam Ryan were other early favorites.

Greg Michaels

I certainly wasn't expecting Greg Michaels, but I can definitely see the appeal given your reasoning! How would you say your fondness for Greg Michaels and Jimmy Diamond from classic BG East compares to your taste in wrestlers now?

I don't think my taste has changed too much. I'm still a sucker for "old school babyfaces."

For me, the presentation is key. Nathan FX dressed in USA gear on Wrestlefest 4 stood out to me, but if he swapped his gear with Kayden Keller, I would be swooning over Kayden.

That's fair. It's a great esthetic! You just mentioned Wrestlefest 4, and previously Demolition 6. Would it be fair to say that you have a preference for one-sided matches? If so, what about them appeals to you?

It goes back to my roots as a pro wrestling fan. Back then, "squash matches" were a staple of wrestling shows. Guys like Terry Funk, Kevin Sullivan & Buzz Sawyer would clearly relish dominating the babyfaces.

So yes, I like squash matches, but I do appreciate it when the babyface puts up a fight. It's all in the execution. If the guy being beaten doesn't know how to sell, it can be very frustrating.

I can totally understand that. The selling, from both ends, is definitely important. Further to that, do you have any particular favorite squash matches from the underground scene?

To me, a proper squash match would have the babyface get maybe 10-15% of the offence.

Guido Genatto vs. Jake Jenkins from Demolition 17 stands out to me. Guido is mean, and Jake is vulnerable, and they play off each other beautifully.

Ethan Andrews kicked pretty boy Matt Engel's ass at Rock Hard Wrestling.

Greg Michaels vs. Josh Avery, which I mentioned earlier, still holds up well to me.

Ace Owens vs. Ronnie Pearl and Teddy Trouble from Wrestler4Hire. I would consider those matches classics too.

This may surprise some people, but I think Untamed Creations does squash matches very well. One match that stands out to me is A Little Tied Up! (Conley vs. Dillon). Dillon's performance was particularly wimpy, and I mean that as a compliment.

Matt Engel in trouble against Ethan Andrews at Rock Hard Wrestling

Great selection of matches! Admittedly I'm unfamiliar with Untamed Creations, but that's certainly a match I'll check out.
Moving on to discussing your blog now, you focus much of your content on capturing screenshots of various matches (as well as non-wrestling content). How do you choose which moments to capture, and what makes them worthy of a blog post?

If I really like a certain video, I'll try to capture screenshots throughout. This can take hours, and often, I'll have to just stop part way through and come back to it.

With a blog post, I try to tell a story with the photos. I usually don't say much in my blogs, but I don't feel I need to. If a photo can grab your attention, you'll most likely enjoy the video I'm referencing.

You're definitely right about that. The phrase "a picture tells a thousand words" comes to mind, and your blog really emphasizes that. As I mentioned in the previous question, you also post a lot of content that isn't wrestling-related, such as your "Studs in Sneakers" and "Muscle Models" posts. What made you want to start posting non-wrestling content, and more specifically, what is it about studs in sneakers that interests you?

As hot as wrestling is, it's not my only passion, so that is why I have featured non-wrestling content. By doing that, hopefully, I can appeal to a more general gay audience who might not be passionate about wrestling.

Regarding my Sneaker/Socks fetish, it's just something I've had since I was a kid. Even before puberty, this was something I was drawn to. Honestly, a lot of guys, even "hot" guys, have ugly feet, but if they wear socks or sneakers (or wrestling boots), it's not an issue.

An image from W.R.'s "Stuck in Sneakers #20"

I've seen on a few posts on your blog that you've commissioned some custom wrestling videos. What makes you want to order a custom video from a company?

So far, I've only had custom wrestling videos from 2 places. One company was charging relatively low prices, and it was  a dream of mine to book a wrestling match (and pick the guys' gear), so I gave them a try. To be honest, I was never really satisfied with our communication. The producer was always very curt and snappy, but I was pleased with my 1st custom and did 3 more. 1 of them I really liked, and the 2 were not great but decent enough. I tried ordering a 5th video, but something was off. I was strung along for almost 4 months until I had enough and gave the owner an ultimatum to either shoot the video or refund me. 

Apparently, the video did get shot, but the producer wouldn't release it to me and forced me to go through PayPal to get a refund. Obviously, after an experience like that, I'll never work with that producer again.

I've also had one custom match with Kirk Donahue that has yet to be released publicly. I was really pleased with the custom from Kirk. He was very nice to deal with and followed my directions very closely. 

I'll definitely consider working with him again, and I do hope my custom gets released publicly someday.

W.R. was kind enough to share this screenshot from his custom featuring Kirk and Jakob Rawley (before his BG East debut)

I think I know exactly who you're talking about in the first part of your message. I also didn't realize Kirk did customs! I'll have to check that out.
What would be your dream custom? Say you could choose any wrestlers, any style, any gear, anything. What would it be?

A couple of scenarios jump out to me. 

I've always longed to see Kayden Keller defeated as a classic babyface in a pro match. There's a photo Kayden shared on social media of him dressed in all white gear, but that was a private match.

The image in question

I'm acquainted with Kayden, so I know there would be some chemistry if we wrestled. If I could shoot a match with Kayden in this scenario, that would be ideal.

Rex Bedford has never been presented to my taste either. I would like to have a custom with him and be able to choose his gear, but I'm not sure if he still wrestles.

If I could travel back in time to  2011, Eli Black and Jason Kane would be prime candidates for me. Hell, I'd still do a custom with Eli today, as long as he cleaned up his facial hair.

Tristan Mounts at Weekend Wrestling is also someone I have my eye on, although his appeal goes up and down depending on his hair style / facial hair. If he went back to being more of a babyface, I'd definitely be interested.

Those are some great scenarios! I know for a lot of people (myself included) Kayden is the dream heel/jobber. What do you think are the qualities a person needs to become a good heel or jobber?

To be a good jobber you need to be able to sell pain/distress/weakness in a convincing way. I don't think you necessarily need to be "hot," although that helps.

To be a good heel, you need to be mean/dominant/cocky in a convincing way. It helps to be bigger, but some of the best heels have actually been smaller guys. IE: Kid Leopard, Kid Vicious & Ethan Andrews.

Regarding Kayden as babyface: I think it's a fantasy of many average sized guys to dominate a bigger man, and I think that's part of the reason Kayden being a jobber is so appealing. To me, it would be nice to see some of the Thunders muscleheads get squashed in a pro ring (in pro gear). I don't follow them too closely, but 2 guys from the past I can think of are Viking and Viggo.

You mentioned earlier how you like to tell a story with the screenshots you capture of certain matches. With regards to that, what would you like to see more of in underground wrestling?

In real life, conflicts are usually swept away, and we're not supposed to react in an aggressive way, no matter how much we want to. Pro and underground wrestling allow us to indulge in our darker, more aggressive side. The winners and losers are more definitive than in real life.

Obviously, there's the homoerotic aspect of fit guys clinched together, but for me, I'm more turned on by the domination aspect of wrestling. Personally, I don't think there's a producer of underground wrestling that has put all the pieces together to make a totally satisfying product.

Overall, 88Wrestling has the aesthetic that I look for, but sometimes their wrestling falls a bit flat. We'll see what the future holds. To sum it up, I'd like to see more commitment and aggression and less joking around from the wrestlers. Watch and learn from the best. 

It would also be nice to see better video and lighting quality from some of the producers. Presentation sells.

How much of the storytelling in a match do you think comes down to the wrestlers themselves vs the producers/directors? Who bears more responsibility for creating a compelling product?

Great question! It's a collaborative effort, for sure. I would lean slightly toward the wrestlers. A producer could have great ideas, but if the wrestlers don't know how to execute those ideas, the match will fall short. 

I think it's up to the producers to find guys who actually understand wrestling and don't have to be walked through everything. While it's true that some videos can be saved in post-production, I don't see a lot of evidence of editing in underground wrestling. It just seems like the producers just shoot whatever is in front of them.

Are there any examples of a match (and by extension a studio) that have successfully balanced wrestler skill with strong production values? What are they doing right?

It's not enough to just shoot the action. You need good lighting, camera work, editing and sound. With that said, I think Can-Am Wrestling, Rock Hard Wrestling, ABS ART, Wrestlingmale & 88 Wrestling lead in production values. Wrestler4Hire comes close, depending on the venue.

As for a specific match? I think some of the best 88W matches involve Ethan Andrews. Ethan vs. Dash, Jett, Tanner & Matt Miller stand out to me. It seems like a lot of people hate Ethan, but surely you can't deny he's one of the most skilled wrestlers on the underground scene.

From ABS ARTS' "Hugo vs Robin submission fight and gutpunch punishment"

I wasn't aware that Ethan was a divisive figure, that's surprising to me. Anyway, as you've alluded to, many of Ethan's matches across various studios are particular standouts, and rightfully so. Are there any wrestlers, past or present, who you feel deserve similar levels of recognition that they haven't received yet?

I think the underground wrestling community does a pretty good job of recognising the top stars.

Guys like Dash Decker, Rex Bedford & Bruce Ballard stand out as wrestlers who always try hard and deliver solid performances.

One wrestler I haven't seen much written about goes by the name Matt at UCW or Clay at Muscle Boy Wrestling. I think he did a very good job given his experience. Another wrestler I've not seen written much about is Mars. He has to be the most expressive seller in recent memory. It's a shame he wasn't more active.

Clay sleepers Jesse Zane at Muscle Boy Wrestling

Of course everyone has their own tastes, but have you noticed any particular trends in the type of wrestlers or performances that resonate most with the underground wrestling community? How do those align with your own preferences?

I think most underground wrestling fans appreciate engagement, effort, and understanding of pro wrestling. If a wrestler has those attributes, that's usually enough to get over with me.

Personally, if the guy is hot, but he doesn't have an understanding of wrestling, that's a turnoff for me. Also, just "going through the motions" and wrestling half-heartedly is a turn-off.

18. What advice would you give to a new wrestler entering the underground scene to ensure they connect with fans and avoid appearing half-hearted?

I don't consider myself a wrestler, but as a longtime fan, I would suggest studying other wrestlers and taking inspiration from them.

I don't think anyone intends to come across as "half-hearted." I think it's a case of certain wrestlers not having enough background knowledge to pull off a match. A fitness model or bodybuilder might look good in wrestling gear, but that doesn't necessarily mean they should be wrestling.

You've shared some great insights on the wrestling scene and your personal favorites. If you had to pick one match, wrestler, or moment (or all three, totally up to you!) that epitomizes why you love underground wrestling, what would it be?

That's a tough question. If I could only pick one match, it would be Denny Cartier vs. Bulldog Barzini: Fantasymen 28 from BG East.

This match has a pro calibre layout & execution while maintaining the intimacy of underground wrestling. Denny, in particular, really shined in this match. Whether he was on offence or defence, he had a presence that was magnetic to me.

Bulldog Barzini looms over Denny Cartier in BG East's "Fantasymen 28"

As we wrap up, do you have any final words of advice, reflections, or hopes for the future of this community?

The underground wrestling scene seems to be thriving at the moment with the rise of Watchfighters and new creators coming up like WrestleStuds. I wish some creators would think about the pricing of their videos. I'm just a working-class guy, and buying underground wrestling videos is a luxury. In my opinion, if you're charging over US $25 for a standard underground wrestling video with no nudity, you're gouging the fans.

WrestleStuds, an offshoot of Muscle Boy Wrestling, has made waves with its first two catalogs. The image above is from "Percy Austin vs Charlie Knight".

It would also be nice if custom videos weren't so damn expensive. If there's a crew of guys together ready to shoot, I don't see why a single match would cost $1000 (or more).

Compassion and consideration are two words that I would suggest to the underground wrestling fans. Try to support the creators by actually buying their products. Voice your opinions in a respectful way.